The Fine Line Between Transformation and Control

In this episode of The Inner Trip, I’m sharing a deeply personal story about a transformational personal development workshop I attended and the lessons I took from an experience that had both powerful tools and some unexpected warning signs.

I break down what initially drew me to this experience, the powerful tools I gained from it, and the warning signs I noticed afterward that made me question whether the environment was truly as empowering as it seemed. We talk about why intelligent, successful, growth-oriented people can still find themselves in spaces that influence their beliefs, relationships, and decision-making, and why curiosity, critical thinking, and self-trust are some of the most important tools we have.

This conversation is not about labeling something as entirely good or bad. It’s about learning how to recognize when personal growth spaces are truly helping you expand versus when they may be asking you to hand over pieces of your own power. Real transformation should help you become more yourself, not less. For this week’s integration, reflect on the communities, teachers, and spaces you’ve invested your energy into. Notice where you may be outsourcing your intuition and what it would look like to reconnect with your own inner knowing. Until next time, trust yourself, follow your intuition, and keep asking, how good can it get?

Sign up for the waitlist for the August round of Limitless Woman here: https://www.juliecyvonne.com/limitless-woman-waitlist

2026 Retreats are filling fast! Check out all the dates & locations here: https://www.juliecyvonne.com/retreats-and-ceremonies
Or fill out the application form here!

Website: https://www.juliecyvonne.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/juliecyvonne
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@juliecyvonne

Curious whether micro-dosing is your next best step?
Take this quick quiz to find out! Discover Whether Micro-Dosing is Right for You

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hi kittens, I'm Julie Savone, psychedelic facilitator, integration expert, and your guide for this wild ride, The Inner Trip. 365 days with plant medicine. I've helped hundreds of people use plant medicine, primarily psilocybin, to heal, expand, and step into their next level. But this year I'm taking it even deeper. For the next 365 days, I'm bringing you with me. I'll be microdosing, journeying, integrating, and exploring what it really means to live a limitless life with plant medicine as a tool, not a crutch. So if you're ready to feel more alive, more clear, more limitless, and you're down to do it with mushrooms and a little bit of sass, you're in the right place. Let's take the inner trip. Oh kitten, we are about to have a good time. One of my favorite episodes I've ever done, I just went to check to send you the date because you might want to listen to it after I tell you what it's about. But it's from December 3rd of 2025. It's called The Wildest Truth A Mushroom Journey Has Ever Told Me, or Shown Me. Uh, it was the story of how I discovered a guy that I was seeing had a whole ass girlfriend that he was about to buy a house with. Go check it out. Um, but I love these little like cheese may storytelling sessions with you. Um I I love a good story. I was born to narrate. So this is a story that it came to mind. It was really present with for with me because there's a friend I have here in Kansas City that I met doing this in the kindest terms, we'll call it a personal development workshop. I met her doing this personal development workshop right around the pandemic. And we became good friends, obviously. Uh, having her here was definitely a selling point for me and moving to Kansas City because I knew like I had a built-in friend and we get to spend time with her. So we were in this situation, and the last time, one of the last times we hung out, she was like, I have this little gift for you, and she opened I opened it, and it is a lighter that says, Let's start a cult. And I put it on my story of just being funny. I took a picture of it and was like, Duh who wants to hear the story of the time that I was in a cult, and everyone was like, Um, yeah, let's do it. So here's the situation. I'm gonna tell you my experience. And then at the end, I had my amazing assistant Lee Wei research like cult checklists basically, and I have not seen this, I haven't even opened the email from her yet. I'm gonna go open the email from her, and we're going to go through step by step and just see if like it fits, right? I didn't want to look at the list and then try to finagle my story around the list. I just wanted this to be like very spontaneous and pure. Um, so my intention today with you is to discover if I've been in a cult or not. Okay, let's set the stage. So 2019, I was still practicing as an attorney and I hired my very first coach. She's actually someone that has since become very well known in the coaching industry. She's uh we'll say taken on a new niche. That's one way to put it. Um, she when I worked with her, she was very different than the way she is now. Okay. We'll leave it at that. But I really enjoyed my time with her. She was actually a big, I think, reason why I wanted to move to San Diego is because like I her life just looks so fun. Like San Diego looks so beautiful. And uh I think I knew at the time that I didn't super want to be a lawyer, but I was still kind of you know, one foot in, one foot out. And so she calls me one day and she goes, I think I have this is after we finished working together. She goes, I think I have the next step for you. It's this workshop. And uh it was I even had a little bit of a sticker shock because it was the same price for these three in-person weekends that it was for like three months of working with her, right? And I was like, Oh, like this feels a little sticky. But you know, I it felt good. Like, yeah, let's do it. Let's do this thing, right? And so I signed up with her on the phone and uh I had already, I think I had already planned to be in San Diego, like I was already moving there, right? And so uh the first weekend was at in the beginning of January, I want to say, in 2020. 2020. So you show up for this first weekend, you're in a big, like, ballroom um at a hotel with I'll say like a hundred other people. Uh, and it was interesting because like they wouldn't let you in right away. You kind of had like they like almost herded us like cats um in the foyer, and then they opened the doors all at once, and like all these people, my former coach was there too. All these people were there, and like they were dressed all in black, and they seemed to be like associated with the event, but they didn't have like a little, you know, signage or whatever else. And and I really like this is my own thing. I don't ask a lot of questions, I just do things. I show up, you know. That's the story of how I got into microdosing in the first place. Is a friend was in town and asked me to check out a company he was investing in, and I said sure, and we went out to check this company out, and it was a micro-dosing company, and uh yeah, so I'm I'm more of a say yes now, ask questions later type of gal. And I really didn't know what was going on. I saw my former coach, but I didn't know anyone else there. I truly knew no one else in the room, and so we're sitting there, and it's like a seminary vibe. There's someone who comes out and starts talking to you. And the first story, like for the first week, I'm really loving the first weekend, right? Um, there were some visualization, like motivational talks. Um there were some pairing up with like your buddy. The buddy was like a person that you just turned to, and it was like you guys are buddies. It actually, if you knew someone, you couldn't be buddies with them, right? Um and there were some some fun aspects to it for sure. Um but it also started to like become a little confrontational. So there were a lot of like really hard and fast rules. So they were really big on time. Like you have to be there at a certain time, and um, you know, no alcohol over the weekend, which was fine, no smoking, which for some people like really like bucked the bucked the trend, right? That was like no smoking, like I'm gonna smoke you know cigarettes if I want to, or whatever. I'm an adult. Um, and I probably honestly would have felt the way the same way if they said like no caffeine. I'd be like, no, if you want me to fucking be here, I will be here like with caffeine. But it's really interesting to see like so who reacts and who kind of bucks against the trends and who sort of fights the system. It was it was very quickly like an interesting little bisection of psychology and sociology and group dynamics and authority and uh okay. So that first weekend was a big training, and at the end of the weekend, they kept promoting this like event that was going to happen as if it was like literally the best night of your life. Like people have missed engagements or weddings or births of children or whatever to be at this event, like you have to be at this event. Um, and the days were super long as well, like the days were really, really long days of this three-day thing. So I get put in a group and I'm you know, I do my thing and it's fun. It is like fun and empowering. It's so funny though. The next uh morning, the final Sunday of that weekend, I was walking in to the training, the final day of training, and this girl is walking from the same place as I am, right? And she's in the training. I've seen her before, we haven't really talked. Uh, and she is like, Did you have fun last night? And I was like, Yeah. And she's like, Was it one of the best nights of your life? And I was like, I don't know about that. And she's so funny. She goes, Well, I've party with Steve Aoki on a yacht, so it definitely wasn't one of the best nights of my life. Suffice it to say, that girl has gone on to become one of my best friends um in San Diego. Like, we're still really good friends. I'm gonna see her and celebrate her son's birthday when I go back to San Diego in a uh in a month. So, yeah. We just immediately clicked. And that's one thing I want to say about this too, is like there are people who I have become really good friends with. There's a scroll in San Diego, um, the my friend here who gave me the lighter. I have a friend in upstate New York who's also my friend, she's come to one of my retreats. I have a few different people from the group who've come on my retreats, and so I'm I'm not saying like nothing is all bad or good, I don't think, right? It's just like how deep are you in the Kool-Aid? Is kind of my my whole thing. Some people are really in the Kool-Aid. Okay, so weekend one is much more like emotionally positive, like trying to lift you up, doing all these things. Uh, weekend two, which is like in a month later, and I almost like didn't go to the same weekend too. I almost switched groups because I was literally studying for the bar at that point. And I'm like, do I really need to freaking do this and study for the bar? And they're like, no, you want to do it. This is gonna be the perfect thing you you need while you're studying for the bar. And I'm like, is it? Um is it really? But I get, you know, I get enrolled, as they would say, into continuing on with it. So weekend two is way different. Like, it's a weekend one was about building you up, weekend two is about breaking you down. It's like they put you in a circle, and all these people around come to find out, all these people they're calling trainers have like no no training certification. They didn't take coaching certifications, right? Like, they took like a weekend training, that's it, to like become quote unquote trainers, and they're like trying to do all this other things with other people, and I'm like, who what qualifications do you have? But anyway, they put one person in the like a student or whatever, right? In the middle of a circle, surrounded by we'll say five or six trainers, and they started yelling crazy things like scared little girl. Um, what are some other things that they would yell at me? I remember scared little girl. It's like, oh, interesting. Which to be fair, at the at the time, I was just leaving law, right? And I've said this before, but I think as a lawyer, I was actually really insecure, and I wore my insecurity as a bitchiness because I was like, well, like, you know, I'll hurt you before you can hurt me. And so I was a really big bitch, but I think it came from being insecure. Um, because when I came down to it, like, yeah, I had a bunch of stuff that I was holding on to. Um, and so I do think they kind of nailed it with a scale scare little girl. Um, or maybe they said lone woof. No, I don't think they said lone whiff to me, but that was one that they would say to people because they could also hear other people getting shouted out, shouted at. But anyway, it was really freaking confrontational. Like they were breaking you down. I don't remember how the second weekend end. Oh, I think it ended with like you had to make this declaration of who you were. Like, I am a courageous, bold, integrous leader, and like all these things, and oh my god, so interesting. Um, I also think my buddy didn't show up. Like the person I was paired with in weekend one didn't show up to weekend two. Um, so I had to start with a new buddy. He got out. Good for him, wherever you are. Smart little man. Um, anyway, not I don't think he was like little, little. Anyway, neither here nor there. And so that was weekend two. It was way more about like building you down, and that's when I kind of started to think I don't think there were a lot of like screening processes. Because here's the thing like someone like me, someone like my friend in San Diego, someone like my friend here, like, could we receive that I'll call it interruptive feedback and like be okay, yeah, you know, we're gonna be fine. But there are some people for whom I just truly don't think this was the right situation to be in, and I don't think they should have done it. There were people who I feel like this was gonna this did push them over a brink in some ways that was not positivo, okay. And so the third weekend ends up absolutely collapsing because COVID happens and this group is scrambling. What we all come to find out is this is essentially like a pyramid scheme where you have to enroll someone else in the next round of training in order to quote unquote graduate. And if you don't enroll someone, then you don't graduate. Essentially, if you don't continue their business, you don't graduate. Uh, and they kept like dangling a carrot in front of us at this like mythical third weekend that we never got to attend because it went on for a year and with like COVID restrictions and stuff, which I'm not saying that's on them, but it's like they to be in integrity definitely should have wrapped that up a lot sooner. And then they kept trying to say to us, like at the end, oh well, you know, you can redo this and come for third weekend, like, redo it, bitch. I've had enough of you. And the trainees were like, it was weird. I there definitely was like this sort of pedestal that they had certain people on, like the the head of the whatever, that I was not like picking up what they were putting down. I will say they have this rule, like where they love to give you feedback and they wouldn't necessarily receive it free rif from you. But I really liked this one aspect of it of like, why would I take feedback from someone who isn't doing something that I want to do? And I really incorporated that and integrated it. But on the same token, like they're doing shit I definitely do not want to do, right? So, like, why am I receiving feedback from you? And like when you had quote unquote breakdowns, you had to have clearing conversations, and in some ways I did learn a lot of really valuable tools that I stay to this day. Like, I still think about the trainer from the very first weekend where he was like, you know, everyone's telling themselves a story, you might as tell might as well tell yourself a good one, which is true. Everything that goes on in our mind is just a story, it's not an empirical fact. And so, like, why don't we edit our thoughts to be portraying a good story? Um, I was already doing this, but like thinking about, you know, get to versus have to. Like, I get to clean my car, I don't have to do it. And like things we get to do are a privilege. Um, I really like the the emphasis around feedback as neutrality. Um, right, so feedback is just information. It's not good or bad or right or wrong, and it doesn't have anything to do with who you are, your intrinsic worth, but it is information for sure. Um, so several aspects of this program that I I really enjoyed and and I carry with me. Um, you know, it I think it made me more accountable in certain ways as well, because you really had to be accountable for everything. Your timing, like impeccable with your word, all sorts of things. So there were good aspects of it. But like when I think about I always when I think about this experience, my thought always comes back to I love the information. I don't necessarily love the package that it came in because it was it's wild out there. It feels I don't know what this cult checklist is gonna look like, but it feels like the power dynamics within the group like are probably going to meet that. Um and then yeah, they ended up having to leave San Diego and they moved to Austin. And now I know like a lot of people in Austin are doing the same training, and I'm like, more power to you if you like it. Uh, it was very, very weird. And then I then around the same time that we're in like weekend three or whatever, this near him or nexium or something documentary comes out. I don't know if you guys remember that, but it was like the girl from Smallville, it was a documentary from her, or she didn't wasn't in it. What am I trying to say? She wasn't like filming it, it was kind of about the stuff that was going on in this essentially cult she joined. So a lot of stuff they were saying, me and my friend from San Diego are watching it, like, holy shit. And then we start Googling. So it turns out this one personal development group is the same as the one that's like in LA, that's the same as this one is that's in uh New York, there's one in Boston, there's one in LA. Sorry, I said LA, there's one in Las Vegas, and so they're different packaging of the exact same thing, which is this like wellspring philosophy from the 70s. So none of these people originated these ideas. They've essentially, I don't know if it's like a franchise or what the business model behind the business model is, but they are taking these teachings, repackaging them, and then creating these trainings, these seminars, these weekends. But the people in San Diego didn't invent it, and they're doing the exact same weekend that you can take in LA or Las Vegas or Boston, right? Like, same thing. Um, it's like, oh, interesting. But the thing with the Neerium that I never personally experienced, or Nexium, whichever one it was called, right? Was there was like this, there was a sex aspect. I think there might have been like some human trafficking stuff. That did not happen to my knowledge in my San Diego experience. I was never propositioned or touched or asked to, shalala. There was no sex. But I did see from my friend here, she said that the so the two people who like owned my branch, we'll call it right, one were a couple, a man and a woman, that the man was really like would send her interesting things on Instagram, and then his wife and like our head trainer called her and like made her cry on the phone. I was like, babe, if you can't keep your husband in line, don't blame, don't blame the woman. And like my friend never did anything with this guy anyway. Um, she's married, but it was all just very, very interesting. It was an interesting experience that I had with this training that I found out was just rebranded trainings from the 70s, and I do think a lot of the information was really solid. I just don't know that I have liked the delivery of it. And so I want to find this email from Leeway. She is so cute. Okay, she says cult checklist. Oh my god. Umie, I'm very grateful for my funny job. Here are two options. Okay. Let's go. There's one test or one more serious checklist page with warning signs. Oh god. I'm kind of feeling the warning signs one. Let's do it. What is a cult? Ten warning signs. Alright. Cares, the first one. Oh, well, let's go here. Uh, the definition of a cult, many definitions suggest that a cult is an organized group whose purpose is to dominate cult members through psychological manipulation and pressure strategies. Experts suggest that this coercive control distinguishes the groups, not their connection to specific faith, religions, or belief systems. So when we talk about psychological manipulation, there was a lot of like, you're good if you've quote unquote saved someone, right? Like if you would okay, the thing was crazy was when you enrolled someone, like you kept their business going, right? They would ring a bell like you'd saved a life. Like, you know, in what's the movie about Christmas and the angel gets its wings or whatever. And then they would like play the song by Anita, Shalala, like, can you ring my bell? It was crazy. I was like, this is weird, right? Um, and pressure strategies. There was a lot of pressure, like there was a lot of hmm, like if you didn't perform right or you didn't behave, like you were in trouble from them. And you were in trouble. They would call you, they would like have clearing conversations with you. Like, it was not, it was not kind, but you know, when I think about this too, and might get some flack from this, like, I think the military's a cult. They want to psychologically fuck you up and push you into doing stuff. So, anyway, let's go here. Um, warning signs of a cult. So, there's both characteristics of a cult and warning signs of a cult. Um, the characteristics of a cult have a charismatic authoritarian leader. So, this woman I was talking about, some people were like so far up this girl's ass, you could not even believe it. I was never personally that much of a fan of her, but like she was there. Demanding loyalty. Yeah, I mean they took up all of your time. This is why I also didn't want to do it when I was like doing taking the bar because it was like a dime expediture, coercion or control. They employ unethical, manipulative tactics to persuade and control others. Uh, I don't know if I want to say this one so much, because like you do, like, you know, you choose into it. I'm not gonna say they coerce me, but this is where I think they should have had some sort of screening mechanism for the people that came in because there were some people that I just don't think psychologically was the right thing for them. Um, exploitation. The primary goal is to advance the group leader's agenda, even though it may harm individuals, families, and communities. Um I don't know. I don't want to say that one. I don't feel comfortable co-signing that. Isolation members are encouraged or forced to cut ties to people outside of the group, including families and including family and friends. So first they really want you to enroll the people in the program, right? But if you can't do that, did they encourage you to cut ties? I don't know, but it was like they pushed you to enroll so hard that I can see how it did ruin relationships from the other end. Bro, I told you no, you know? Um, us versus them mentality. The groom claims to be the sole source of truth and authority. I will say that one, an us versus mem them mentality for sure, because it was like they were somehow right in this training. Like there was no opportunity to like have a contrary opinion of like this is what it is, and like you better do it or else. Okay. Doesn't say how many you have to do to like be considered a cult, which is really what I wanted. But let's just go through the warning signs. Absolute authoritarianism without accountability. Oh, yeah, no one was giving her accountability, that's for fucking sure. Zero tolerance for criticism or questions. Oh my god, yes. Okay, lack of meaningful financial disclosure regarding the budget. Yeah, at the beginning, you did not know that you had to enroll someone else in their pyramid scheme to keep this thing going. Okay. Unreasonable fears about the outside world that often involve evil conspiracies and persecutions. Yeah, there was very much like a big brother's out there vibe for sure. A belief that a former followers are always wrong for leaving, and there's never a legitimate reason for anyone else to leave. Honestly, kind of, when they were like, you have to do this because like people have missed their weddings or like the birth of their children or crazy shit to show up. I for sure feel that. Abuse of members. To my knowledge, no one in my branch ever got abused. Records, books, articles, or programs documenting the abuses of the leader group. No, definitely not that. Followers feel that they're never able to be good enough. Yeah, I mean, even if after you enrolled someone, they're like, okay, get on it again. A belief that the leader is right at all times. I mean, I didn't believe she was right, but I'm sure some people did. A belief that leader is given exclusive terms of knowing truth or giving validations. Yes! Oh my god. Okay, so let's see. Of the ten, one, two, three, four. Five. Okay, so no abuse, no records about the biosis either. Um eight, nine, ten. Yeah, so of the ten, only two I didn't say. I think 80% is a pretty good sign that we're joining the cult. Um let's see, you know what? I'm just gonna just Google this thing right now. Is Wellspring a cult? Yes, founded in 1974. Live Spring was a human potential seminar that faced multiple accusations of being a destructive cult. Oh my god! Former members, journalists, and cult members described it as a high control group citing coercive tactics, psychological breakdowns, and aggressive recruitment.

unknown 22:45

Ah!

SPEAKER_00 22:46

You guys I was part of a cult. I was part of a cult. I love that for me. That is hilarious. Um, I don't love it for the people who again, I feel like they could not separate fan from uh fun from fact from fiction. I was very clear on like what I was and was not available for all of that. Um, but some people were really, really in it. And that does make me sad. Like me, my friend in San Diego, my friend here, the women have come to my retreats. We could all have a good laugh about it. Like, teaching's good, execution, bad. Um, wow. Hmm. I don't know why I've never Googled that before, but it was way more fun to discover it with you in real time. Um, interesting. Interesting. Okay, I'm gonna ask the integration question for this week, and I would just want you to take it with like a little bit of a grainer of salt or like a little mode of safety is you know, maybe there's something I would like, I would if you're interested in in and feel safe, kind of looking backwards, right? Thinking about what is something that maybe you've experienced, and at the time you were like you didn't really think too much about it, but you know, looking back, maybe there was something more that was happening, and like what lesson could you learn from it, right? So I'm not saying you were an cult, you probably weren't, but maybe there was a relationship or a behavior or something that happened where you're like, oh, at the time I didn't think too much about that. But looking back, that's not healthy, that's not safe, that wasn't okay with me. And you know, maybe even taking a moment to like connect with your inner child and and say, like, hey, like, I mean, I'm sorry that that happened. If you were a child, right? I'm sorry that that happened. I'm sorry that no one protected you. Um, and acknowledging that like that wasn't okay wherever it was in your life and seeing if there's anything for you to learn from it. Uh, at this point, I'm very like rooted in myself, probably from being in this fucking cult and like that would not happen to me again. But um, fun times I wasn't a cult. So thank you so much for joining me this week in this exploration. I love you lots, and I'll catch you on the flip side. That's the end of today's trip. But remember, the real magic has always been inside of you. If this episode landed, send it to a friend who's ready to step into their next level. And make sure you're following the show so you never miss a dose. I'll be back again soon with another day on the path to your most limitless life. And until then, trust yourself, follow your intuition, and keep asking how good can it get?